Questions After the Announcement
After the announcement of the plan to close five camps and create two "Premier Leadership Centers", there was a question and answer period. Here is a transcript of the questions and answers.
Dan Bragg: We will take questions from the delegates. We have 15 minutes.
[ NO! Numerous protests from the assembly ]
Chris Braunning: I am a Board Member who missed the March 2nd meeting due to a family tragedy. I would like to make a motion to rescind the vote that was made on March 2nd. [loud applause ] ***** Camp Timberlane. I have had several board members say they weren't there or they didn't t know that was going to be done, and they would like to have the opportunity to vote otherwise.
[unknown voice ; I second it]
Dan Bragg: I’m sorry. The motion is not in order at this proceeding.
Chris Braunning: where ** it’s not in order?
Dan Bragg: [ refers to parliamentarian ] The vote on March 2 was a decision of the Board. The General Assembly does not****have presumptive powers of the board and this community cannot take away the attitudes that the board has already voted on and approved or not approved.
[ Murmuring ]
Chris Braunning: The general membership really has nothing to say about what is going to happen with these camps? You’re telling me it is only based on board decisions?
Dan Bragg: Based on Board decision. Next question.
Tina LaVerne (?) Central Region: My question is - has the Board of Directors and the planning committee really exhausted all resources to keep these camps open for the girls? [Applause ] One more thing - how is it that a single camp like Camp Timberlane can get such extraordinary funding from private industry and yet we don’t go through the same efforts to get that same funding for our other camps ? Give us the opportunity. Give it to the girls. Give it to the membership and let us try.
Joan Villareal : I am on the Board. I am from the West. And I was on the committee that helped to raise funding for Camp Timberlane. I can tell you that Camp Timberlane had three major donors who stepped forward; all three are deceased. We had one donor who wrote a check for two million. We had another donor who wrote a check for a half a million dollars. And I forget what the third donor wrote. The majority of what we raised were from the three donors. It was a once in a life time opportunity. The two million dollar donation from that donor was, in fact, the largest single donation that any GS council in country has received.
[ Garbled and talk overs ]
Tina ________: ******** foundation does not exceed *****8
Joan Villareal : [interrupting] You are correct. Eric Nord wrote the 2 million dollar check. And Eric Nord is deceased.
Tina _________: I’m not suggesting that we go to the Nord Foundation for more money. However, there may be other opportunities in other areas of Northeast Ohio including other major business corporations, including the one I work for, that may be willing to help Girl Scouts. Let us try. Give us the opportunity to try. The question that you presented was: did we exhaust all of the possibility for keeping these camps open? Explain that.
? Board Member: We actually took that report and went backward trying to disprove the findings from this outside expert. The short answer to that is we spent almost the last two and a half years looking and exhausting every possibility for keeping . . .
[ OUTBURST ]
Dan Bragg: Please come back to order. We will allow you to ask the questions as we can.
Tina _____________: We have NOT exhausted the possibilities! You didn't ask the leaders and the people who have said they will help !
Dan Bragg: Please - next question
Barbara Parkinson, North Region: I would like to know what the time table is. I know up on the slide you said you were going to close all the camps on December 11. What is the time table on actually disposing of the properties?
? Board member: We are leaving them open this year because the programming guides are already out. We’ve got plans for programming at the camps this year. So that when the existing programming expires, *** and then we will start the process of preparing it for sale.
Barbara Parkinson: Camps will not be able to be used after December 11, is that correct?
? Board Member: Im not sure what we have decided ***** property that are for sale. It depends on staff we have available. Part of the process that Brent mentioned is that we will now be in the process of evaluating those timelines further. Details *** stuff like that.
Barbara Parkinson : * ** Is that is what I saw on the slide?
? Board member : Yes
Barbara Parkinson: Thank you
Dan Bragg Next
Daisy DiSanto ? For the last four months I have been trying to plan a camp outing at one of the campgrounds. Hilaka being one of them. And I haven’t received any call backs or emails. I’ve been put on the back burner saying that I can’t get to you right now. My question is - if I have a problem planning outings now, how much more difficult will it be trying to plan with only these two campgrounds? Once these camps are gone they are going to be gone forever. I want to know is there going to be a price increase of triple the price of what it is now?
[ applause]
Dan Bragg : Earlier in our questions and answers ******* As far as what happened with trying to get into Camp Hilaka, please feel free...
Daisy DiSanto ?: Not just Camp Hilaka, it’s pretty much all of them.
[outbursts, comments from assembly “Have YOU ever tried to register for camp?” / laughter / ”the board doesn't camp, they don't know”. ]
? Board Member: Remember that additions to existing camps are going to increase capacity that vastly exceeds participation. Iunderstand that there is a period of time that is troublesome, but we are going to be expanding the capacity well beyond what we currently have. There should be more . . .. .
Daisy DiSanto? : If this is a girl led organization, then shouldn't it be the girls decision and not the women, or the adults, or the CEO, or the high paid employees? [applause]
? Board Member : *****Delegation was involved in the process
[ outbursts: NO! No we weren't ! ]
Dan Bragg: next question
Penny Hewlett, South Region -Lifetime Member: The first time I went to Great Trail Camp was 50 years ago. It holds an important part in my life, camping does. I appreciate what you’re doing; I have a couple of questions. Will these camps be maintained? But I also want to point out - Remember, board, you are /WE are a volunteer run organization. Without us, without the 7 year olds selling cookies, we would not be here. And since we are girl-led, [Applause] I know there’s a young lady in the back of the line that really needs to be heard. I would like her to be able come up and talk to you. Elizabeth, can you come up please?
Dan Bragg: Ill recognize her if I can. Next question in the back
[massive outbursts]
Rachel Oppenheimer: You need to let the girl speak.
Dan Bragg: If you are giving up your question that’s fine
Rachel Oppenheimer: I’m not giving up my question. I’m letting her speak first. This is her organization.
Penny Hewlett : On behalf of being a Girl Scout and being a role model, I understand that passions and emotions are running high right now, but, and Im going to turn my back to you, but right now . . .
Dan Bragg: Address the Board
Penny Hewlett: Ladies,
Dan Bragg If we can’t maintain, we will have to clear it out. Let’s keep some order.
Penny Hewlett Let’s be exemplary role models to the girls that are here. Give them your respect. And Board, please listen to our girls.
Dan Bragg: ******question, if you HAVE a question
Melissa Peters ?: I am from the South area. I have a note from my GS troop on behalf of the entire area. I understand that you are announcing the fate of the local camps. We appreciate Great Trail Camp and we use it quite often. It would make younger girls along with us very disappointed if our favorite camp was closed. We have grown up in the camp and have learned many life skills. There are younger girls wanting to have the same experiences we had when we were younger. If camp is closed the girls will not get the opportunity to enjoy camp the way it was meant to be. Please keep in mind all of the girls that would be disappointed if the camps close when you make your decision. We hope you reconsider your decision and keep the camp open. Thank you
Dan Bragg: We have about 5 min. left
[ loud murmuring ]
Rachel Oppenhiemer, North Region: Upon hearing the announcement of this decision, we began a petition and I would like to present to you now.
“ We, the undersigned, petition the Board of Directors and the CEO of GSNEO to commit to keeping all camps open. We want these spaces to remain vibrant for our generation and future generations to experience what all that camp has to offer. “
We opened this to Girl Scouts, members, volunteers, concerned parents, and alumni and we got an astounding number of responses in just the short time we’ve had it up. I expect we will have many more today. I want to share with you a couple of thoughts the people had.........
Dan Bragg [interrupting] : questions only
Rachel Oppenheimer: I HAVE a question. ”As a parent of two daughters who went all the way through senior level scouting, I know what camping did for them and their friends. Camping builds problem solving skills, initiative and hard work. Girls need this area to continue and have easy access to these programming” . From a volunteer: “We’ve all ** camping, the high adventure, the map reading skills, the outdoor stuff is what keeps our girls in Girl Scouts, its the stuff they dont get anywhere else”. The girls …....
[ interruptions “Could you speed it up?” “ What IS the point?” “I’M a girl and I would like to speak”. “What if you continue the meeting until everyone gets a chance?” “They're not going to” ]
Rachel Oppenheimer: I will GET to the question! This is not about nostalgia. This is about providing a safe space for every Girl Scout to have a chance have to grow, to be herself, and to create a world that operates on her own terms. So what I want to know, in acommunity with 40,000 or 50,000 members, if only 50% of them go camping and we only have two camps, how do you even get 20,000 people in two camps and how do you make sure everybody is provided for?
Brent Gardner: Thank you for your comments. I want to say from a capacity standpoint we looked really hard both at how they have been utilized recently. We looked at long term how theyve been utilized and we’ve made a lot of projections. I want you to understand, we aren’t doing away with camping. [outbursts ] We are committed to outdoor programming. We are not doing away with camping. We are going to make it better. That honestly is what our goal is.
[ murmurings]
Corey Ringle, North Region: I have a proposal I would like to make.. I will try to read quickly.
“ Since the merger of the five legacy councils to form GSNEO, there has never been a time when the membership had all the following occur at the same time: fully opened camps, readily available information to all the GSNEO camps, and a centralized easy to use campsite registration system.
During the first few years camps were fully open but there was no camp information on the council web site. Many members did not know that they were allowed to camp outside their own region. They did know the separate regional application was inferior. This limited program options and impeded on the unification of the Council. By the time the later two factors had been corrected half of Great Trail and most of Crowell Hilaka had been closed.
Because of these circumstances, assessments of GSNEO properties were made during a restricted conditions. Mindful now that property decisions now will impact the health of GSNEO for generations to come, they should not be made with undue haste. A full evaluation of council programming needs, including camp usage, should be made during optimum conditions to determine What it is that our girls and their parents want During this evaluation, council should
- maintain all current properties;
- all camp properties that are safe for use should remain open, (with possible exception of rotating winter closures for energy conservation.
- members will be encouraged to form or join their own friends groups for each of the properties to assist with support and minor maintenance.
-GSNEO will budget adequate funds for maintenance at each site to prevent property deterioration and maintain safety standards
- GSNEO funds may be directed for improvement to existing buildings and lands, but none toward the construction of completely new buildings , no purchase of additional property.
- data will be collected on the outcome of clients first choice of sites and dates are available. - Which is huge. I hear a lot of people getting closed out.
- Data on property usage budget allocations shall be shared with membership on a regular basis. - We did not know there was $30 million dollars of damage. People have been begging us to come on the property to maintain and fix things.
- The evaluation period will begin when it is shown that the reservation system is working effectively.. Which it's not- Two weeks ago we had issues.
- The evaluation process should be 3-5 years in length. The final property decisions will be based primarily on usage data
Dan Bragg : We have the people in line now. We’ll try to get to questions for everyone in line. No one else new in line. If you are making a statement and going on, I'm going to cut you off so we can get to everyone here. Please ask a question that we can answer, and we'll be glad to *******.
Beth Herman? Central region: My question is going back to the original survey. When I filled it out, I did not feel the questions on there were adequate for me to answer why I do or do not camp. My main criteria is not flush toilets, it is availability and affordability. As wonderful as these buildings are, you are now going to price me out of being in a camp. We have [ applause] criteria of our own that was not*****
Brent Gardner : Im not sure that is a question or statement. One of the things we have to look at - that we did look at - is affordability. Affordability goes to the bottom line of usage . If we keep running camps the way we’ve been running them we can'tever stay affordable for very long! It's HUGE that we organize our facilities in a manner so they become affordable for everyone. This isn’t anything other than doing what’s right for girls on a long time basis.
Beth Herman?: If girls can sell thousands of boxes of cookies, why can’t girls fundraise to keep camps open?
[Applause]
Unknown Girl, North Region: I would just like to say that you showed us these camps - using more building. They look just like houses to me. They don’t even feel like cabins. And then you’re just changing it all. You’re just p putting in more stuff we don’t need. That’s not camping. We need camping. Not more stuff we need in our houses.
[applause]
Roberta Riordan, North Region, troop leader, council delegate, new national delegate: As I said in my little speech, we've just been through an ACA accreditation. I have to eat my words because I didn’t believe the advanced rumor. a I wanted to know - how you can possibly justify letting Camp Sugarbush go when it just went through ACA accreditation over the summer? When it's on your list as “ important” and it's the only one in the east ?
[ outbursts]
Brent Gardner: That camp just doesnt have the usage that the other camps have. What I want you to do is look at the Vision 2012 report on the web site and it pretty much outlines what the issues are with each of the camp in numerical order.
Roberta Riordan Do you know the value of ACA accreditation? Can you really justify losing camps of that status ?
Dan Bragg : question in back
Julie__________ North. Troop leader: My question is - until things change - going forward- you want to shut down 5 camps in December, then you want to increase two of the camps ... How long are we looking at without any camps for us to camp at ?
Brent Gardner : With capacity/usage right right now, with the camps that are left, if we plowed all of our resources into the two camps, we have enough capacity to accommodate all the camping that needs to take place right now.
[ outbursts]
Julie_________: ******down to 400. Next spring, let’s go next spring, not many of us camp in the winter. You can count on that. Although I do and a lot of people do....
[ board member attempts to interrupt]
You’re telling me that I won’t get shut out from either of the two camps that are operating at capacity?
? Board Member Part of the planning process that will occur from this point forward will be evaluating different opportunities for funding for advanced development. There may be limited capacity during that processes where we are selling real estate. We will continue to evaluate this and share with membership. There’s a possibility of us to get bridge loans, things like that, in advance of the sale. We are not limited to *********remaining camps.
[Shouted comment: if you can get bridge loans to make things pretty, why can't you***?]
Dan Bragg : OK, next question please. Right here...
Barbara Starr, North Region Membership Delegate: my delegate friend here had a different proposal that you guys totally ignored. We are asking that you wait and reconsider. And if not, as a membership delegate, I say that you never asked our opinions on anything. I think when we did have these meeting we did tell you we don’t want any camps sold. So, therefore I ask that all Board members resign . . .
[ loud, prolonged applause]
Dan Bragg: No comments!
Unknown Member: What is your definition of camping? Here’s mine and it doesn’t have flushable toilets and electricity. You can leave cell phones home for a little while.
?Board member: My understanding from the planning, take camping from the very most primitive to some of the much ******* [garbled and talk over ]
Unknown Member: Your definition of camping. Each of you everyone up there. What is your definition of it? Those pictures up there are definitely not what I would call camping.
? Board member as I said, we are going to have more options........
[OUTBURSTS: ”Answer the question” / ”Answer the question”]
Pamme O’Bryan.Central Region. Council trainer, district coordinator, site monitor, Vison 2012 committee: From my stand point, sometimes our job there was very vague. So, you go over how you researched it, from my point of view being on that committee. I feel we were window dressing. We came to this meeting expecting wonderful things, where it was all going to be OK. The plan that they had was modern. So let’s ask everybody here: Is this your idea of Girl Scout camp?
[ resounding “NO” !!!!]
Pamme O’Bryan Is this what the membership wants? What the girls want?
Dan Bragg: questions directed up here.
Pamme O'Bryan: I understand that. But this is not our idea of camp. If you’re going to put in this kind of thing at camp, what happens to the woods? What happens to the actual property at those camps? How much natural woods? When you can take your girls and you can ***** compared the gorgeous stuff, you go there and that’s better that your house.
? Board Member: **** programs***** expanded
Dan Bragg next question
Ellen Gibson, Girl, Troop 1423 North Region with Vanessa Martin. My question is - you’re saying kids want all these new things in the camp - pools, flushable toilets everything. But I want to know: needs in one hand - wants in the other. C'mon, people, really?
Kelsey Klima, Girl, North Region, National Delegate: First of all I want to say, the adults in this room. Youre setting a horrible example. Second of all, I want to know when this is opened? I for one, am so excited.
? Board Member: We will keep the membership informed as to how the timeline is coming.
Ellen Gibson : You didnt let me say what I wanted to say. You have all this stuff out in the lunch room. You can have this for free - look at that food over there. Why cant you put that to the camps? Where did that go? Wasted in the trash
Dan Bragg: next question
Arshawna Warren, Girl, Central Region, Troop 1984: My question is - How can you close these camps down when you haven’t been there to actually have fun? To me shutting down camps is like shutting down Girl Scouts. I have been a Girl Scout for ten years. I have been to Hilaka and Lenjar more time than I can count. I am very upset right now! This is like a hotel! I dont need a hotel ! I want to go camping - CAMPING - no electricity. I dont need a cell phone . No bathroom? I can use outside . We can bring toilet paper. We don’t need all this. Can we have our camps back, please?
Unknown Member, West Region: I guess my biggest concern is based on the usage of the camps. We use Camp Pleasant Valley in the western area, the only camp in the area. Our next choice is Camp Timberlane which is basically 90 minutes to get there. I dont call that accessible for these girls. To use our own camp, the cost of the camp for overnight use has gone from $30 to over $100 in the last two years. And we call this affordable. I guess my challenge to this board is how do you expect us to try to get new girls to join Girl Scouts? To grow the membership and say ‘yes we can do this for you, but it is going to be very limited because its not really easy for us to take you 90 miles’. Have you ever taken 13 or 14 girls 90 miles? In your decision making process have you really considered the accessibility for these girls? The effect on recruitment?
? Board Member: The cost of camping is going up because of operating the number of camps, and what we will have ******* many people are saying they want to camp primitively. Tthe primitive camping at these camps will be expanded along with these other ....
Unknown Member, West Region [ interrupting ]: It’s 90 minutes away.
? Board Member: you know there are other camps that are closer
Unknown Member, West Region: You are placing Camp Timberlane as the closest camp for us to use, and that’s a 90 minutes drive for us.
? Board Member: To help**********the Boy Scouts went through a similar process******
[ overtalking. Shouts “ You are not answering the question!” ]
Dan Bragg : next question please
Edie Dale : Apparently I won’t get an answer, but Ill try anyway. I'm a Twinsburg volunteer. You have this vision - and some of the vision are what I could see for a camp. The yurts, things that could work. The Vision2012 committee was never asked for their vision. We were asked to do footwork for you , which we did. But not once was the vision sent out to everybody. How is this vision going to happen with the limited space you have left at these camps? You can’t buy property right now. There is so much that has been taken and developed. Field, farm, its gone for housing. How do we have the acreage for your vision, which I would like to point out is not our vision entirely?
Brent Gardner : Thank you for your comment. I want to answer it this way: we do look at the whole picture. We have enough capacity. We will acquire some other acreage around there. The reality of the situation is we have worked really diligently to try to get this all to fit in a smaller footprint so it is more affordable. So it can be a Leadership Center for all the girls that will encompass camping , STEM, and science technology. Those are the things 30,000 people that we represent want, not just what 1,500 people want.
Edie Dale: You. Are . Taking the bed capacity down from ***** 350; *****.76% . That’s just the girls, not including the adults, can now only camp in the winter months from Oct. to April. Thats not our vision.
Dan Bragg next question
: it is suggested that girls can resort to using public camps if you are relinquishing camps in local area. I personally do not feel comfortable taking my girls into public campgrounds. I don’t feel it’s safe for them. I’m going to be competing with other families coming and going. I’m going to be competing with men and women who are not related to Girl Scouting. They not background checked. They are not part of the GS registered organization. We are very, very careful to make sure everybody is registered and background checked to go camping with us. For me to be comfortable bringing my girls into that situation or being responsible for them, for that matter. How are you going to manage that?
Dan Bragg That will be planned out by staff. Next Question, please.
Unknown Member, Organizer: Dont you have an answer?
Dan Bragg: No we don’t. Weren’t you the last in line?
Christina Timms , Troop 1306 from Kent: I have 20- 25 girls Daisies through Seniors . This thing looks like the Brewery to me. I have cheerleaders. We camp there. This is ridiculous. We have flushable toilets at Hilaka that's where out troop goes to camp. My girls are ******* Girl Scout book that was out last year . OK and they looked **** Journey. My Cadettes go where is knot tying and stuff. They say this is ridiculous. They went to Boy Scouts . You say we are looking for help ----- ask the Boy Scouts to do their Eagle Projects at the camps. Speaking as a Walmart employee, we volunteer. My daughter does over in the community. Do you have an answer why you have not come and asked us? Do you have a reason why ? Call us - I'll give you the number.
Dan Bragg That was a statement rather than a question. Next question, last question
Lynn Richardson, North Region, Vision 2012 Committee Member: I helped put up the flags outside that represent 21 properties that had belonged to Girl Scouts in northeastern Ohio that have been lost over the years. More significantly, last spring I presented to you the results of the membership property survey. I have different numbers than the ones you presented.
My question is not the loss of the camps. It's the loss of democracy, because you've got all these people here saying they don't want this. It's the loss of honor when you twist the numbers around and change them. How are you going to maintain membership when youve not only lost camps but youve lost honor?
[Applause]
Dan Bragg ; Thank you for coming . It is a business meeting and it has to be run this way
Everyone rise for the retiring of the colors.
Dan Bragg: We will take questions from the delegates. We have 15 minutes.
[ NO! Numerous protests from the assembly ]
Chris Braunning: I am a Board Member who missed the March 2nd meeting due to a family tragedy. I would like to make a motion to rescind the vote that was made on March 2nd. [loud applause ] ***** Camp Timberlane. I have had several board members say they weren't there or they didn't t know that was going to be done, and they would like to have the opportunity to vote otherwise.
[unknown voice ; I second it]
Dan Bragg: I’m sorry. The motion is not in order at this proceeding.
Chris Braunning: where ** it’s not in order?
Dan Bragg: [ refers to parliamentarian ] The vote on March 2 was a decision of the Board. The General Assembly does not****have presumptive powers of the board and this community cannot take away the attitudes that the board has already voted on and approved or not approved.
[ Murmuring ]
Chris Braunning: The general membership really has nothing to say about what is going to happen with these camps? You’re telling me it is only based on board decisions?
Dan Bragg: Based on Board decision. Next question.
Tina LaVerne (?) Central Region: My question is - has the Board of Directors and the planning committee really exhausted all resources to keep these camps open for the girls? [Applause ] One more thing - how is it that a single camp like Camp Timberlane can get such extraordinary funding from private industry and yet we don’t go through the same efforts to get that same funding for our other camps ? Give us the opportunity. Give it to the girls. Give it to the membership and let us try.
Joan Villareal : I am on the Board. I am from the West. And I was on the committee that helped to raise funding for Camp Timberlane. I can tell you that Camp Timberlane had three major donors who stepped forward; all three are deceased. We had one donor who wrote a check for two million. We had another donor who wrote a check for a half a million dollars. And I forget what the third donor wrote. The majority of what we raised were from the three donors. It was a once in a life time opportunity. The two million dollar donation from that donor was, in fact, the largest single donation that any GS council in country has received.
[ Garbled and talk overs ]
Tina ________: ******** foundation does not exceed *****8
Joan Villareal : [interrupting] You are correct. Eric Nord wrote the 2 million dollar check. And Eric Nord is deceased.
Tina _________: I’m not suggesting that we go to the Nord Foundation for more money. However, there may be other opportunities in other areas of Northeast Ohio including other major business corporations, including the one I work for, that may be willing to help Girl Scouts. Let us try. Give us the opportunity to try. The question that you presented was: did we exhaust all of the possibility for keeping these camps open? Explain that.
? Board Member: We actually took that report and went backward trying to disprove the findings from this outside expert. The short answer to that is we spent almost the last two and a half years looking and exhausting every possibility for keeping . . .
[ OUTBURST ]
Dan Bragg: Please come back to order. We will allow you to ask the questions as we can.
Tina _____________: We have NOT exhausted the possibilities! You didn't ask the leaders and the people who have said they will help !
Dan Bragg: Please - next question
Barbara Parkinson, North Region: I would like to know what the time table is. I know up on the slide you said you were going to close all the camps on December 11. What is the time table on actually disposing of the properties?
? Board member: We are leaving them open this year because the programming guides are already out. We’ve got plans for programming at the camps this year. So that when the existing programming expires, *** and then we will start the process of preparing it for sale.
Barbara Parkinson: Camps will not be able to be used after December 11, is that correct?
? Board Member: Im not sure what we have decided ***** property that are for sale. It depends on staff we have available. Part of the process that Brent mentioned is that we will now be in the process of evaluating those timelines further. Details *** stuff like that.
Barbara Parkinson : * ** Is that is what I saw on the slide?
? Board member : Yes
Barbara Parkinson: Thank you
Dan Bragg Next
Daisy DiSanto ? For the last four months I have been trying to plan a camp outing at one of the campgrounds. Hilaka being one of them. And I haven’t received any call backs or emails. I’ve been put on the back burner saying that I can’t get to you right now. My question is - if I have a problem planning outings now, how much more difficult will it be trying to plan with only these two campgrounds? Once these camps are gone they are going to be gone forever. I want to know is there going to be a price increase of triple the price of what it is now?
[ applause]
Dan Bragg : Earlier in our questions and answers ******* As far as what happened with trying to get into Camp Hilaka, please feel free...
Daisy DiSanto ?: Not just Camp Hilaka, it’s pretty much all of them.
[outbursts, comments from assembly “Have YOU ever tried to register for camp?” / laughter / ”the board doesn't camp, they don't know”. ]
? Board Member: Remember that additions to existing camps are going to increase capacity that vastly exceeds participation. Iunderstand that there is a period of time that is troublesome, but we are going to be expanding the capacity well beyond what we currently have. There should be more . . .. .
Daisy DiSanto? : If this is a girl led organization, then shouldn't it be the girls decision and not the women, or the adults, or the CEO, or the high paid employees? [applause]
? Board Member : *****Delegation was involved in the process
[ outbursts: NO! No we weren't ! ]
Dan Bragg: next question
Penny Hewlett, South Region -Lifetime Member: The first time I went to Great Trail Camp was 50 years ago. It holds an important part in my life, camping does. I appreciate what you’re doing; I have a couple of questions. Will these camps be maintained? But I also want to point out - Remember, board, you are /WE are a volunteer run organization. Without us, without the 7 year olds selling cookies, we would not be here. And since we are girl-led, [Applause] I know there’s a young lady in the back of the line that really needs to be heard. I would like her to be able come up and talk to you. Elizabeth, can you come up please?
Dan Bragg: Ill recognize her if I can. Next question in the back
[massive outbursts]
Rachel Oppenheimer: You need to let the girl speak.
Dan Bragg: If you are giving up your question that’s fine
Rachel Oppenheimer: I’m not giving up my question. I’m letting her speak first. This is her organization.
Penny Hewlett : On behalf of being a Girl Scout and being a role model, I understand that passions and emotions are running high right now, but, and Im going to turn my back to you, but right now . . .
Dan Bragg: Address the Board
Penny Hewlett: Ladies,
Dan Bragg If we can’t maintain, we will have to clear it out. Let’s keep some order.
Penny Hewlett Let’s be exemplary role models to the girls that are here. Give them your respect. And Board, please listen to our girls.
Dan Bragg: ******question, if you HAVE a question
Melissa Peters ?: I am from the South area. I have a note from my GS troop on behalf of the entire area. I understand that you are announcing the fate of the local camps. We appreciate Great Trail Camp and we use it quite often. It would make younger girls along with us very disappointed if our favorite camp was closed. We have grown up in the camp and have learned many life skills. There are younger girls wanting to have the same experiences we had when we were younger. If camp is closed the girls will not get the opportunity to enjoy camp the way it was meant to be. Please keep in mind all of the girls that would be disappointed if the camps close when you make your decision. We hope you reconsider your decision and keep the camp open. Thank you
Dan Bragg: We have about 5 min. left
[ loud murmuring ]
Rachel Oppenhiemer, North Region: Upon hearing the announcement of this decision, we began a petition and I would like to present to you now.
“ We, the undersigned, petition the Board of Directors and the CEO of GSNEO to commit to keeping all camps open. We want these spaces to remain vibrant for our generation and future generations to experience what all that camp has to offer. “
We opened this to Girl Scouts, members, volunteers, concerned parents, and alumni and we got an astounding number of responses in just the short time we’ve had it up. I expect we will have many more today. I want to share with you a couple of thoughts the people had.........
Dan Bragg [interrupting] : questions only
Rachel Oppenheimer: I HAVE a question. ”As a parent of two daughters who went all the way through senior level scouting, I know what camping did for them and their friends. Camping builds problem solving skills, initiative and hard work. Girls need this area to continue and have easy access to these programming” . From a volunteer: “We’ve all ** camping, the high adventure, the map reading skills, the outdoor stuff is what keeps our girls in Girl Scouts, its the stuff they dont get anywhere else”. The girls …....
[ interruptions “Could you speed it up?” “ What IS the point?” “I’M a girl and I would like to speak”. “What if you continue the meeting until everyone gets a chance?” “They're not going to” ]
Rachel Oppenheimer: I will GET to the question! This is not about nostalgia. This is about providing a safe space for every Girl Scout to have a chance have to grow, to be herself, and to create a world that operates on her own terms. So what I want to know, in acommunity with 40,000 or 50,000 members, if only 50% of them go camping and we only have two camps, how do you even get 20,000 people in two camps and how do you make sure everybody is provided for?
Brent Gardner: Thank you for your comments. I want to say from a capacity standpoint we looked really hard both at how they have been utilized recently. We looked at long term how theyve been utilized and we’ve made a lot of projections. I want you to understand, we aren’t doing away with camping. [outbursts ] We are committed to outdoor programming. We are not doing away with camping. We are going to make it better. That honestly is what our goal is.
[ murmurings]
Corey Ringle, North Region: I have a proposal I would like to make.. I will try to read quickly.
“ Since the merger of the five legacy councils to form GSNEO, there has never been a time when the membership had all the following occur at the same time: fully opened camps, readily available information to all the GSNEO camps, and a centralized easy to use campsite registration system.
During the first few years camps were fully open but there was no camp information on the council web site. Many members did not know that they were allowed to camp outside their own region. They did know the separate regional application was inferior. This limited program options and impeded on the unification of the Council. By the time the later two factors had been corrected half of Great Trail and most of Crowell Hilaka had been closed.
Because of these circumstances, assessments of GSNEO properties were made during a restricted conditions. Mindful now that property decisions now will impact the health of GSNEO for generations to come, they should not be made with undue haste. A full evaluation of council programming needs, including camp usage, should be made during optimum conditions to determine What it is that our girls and their parents want During this evaluation, council should
- maintain all current properties;
- all camp properties that are safe for use should remain open, (with possible exception of rotating winter closures for energy conservation.
- members will be encouraged to form or join their own friends groups for each of the properties to assist with support and minor maintenance.
-GSNEO will budget adequate funds for maintenance at each site to prevent property deterioration and maintain safety standards
- GSNEO funds may be directed for improvement to existing buildings and lands, but none toward the construction of completely new buildings , no purchase of additional property.
- data will be collected on the outcome of clients first choice of sites and dates are available. - Which is huge. I hear a lot of people getting closed out.
- Data on property usage budget allocations shall be shared with membership on a regular basis. - We did not know there was $30 million dollars of damage. People have been begging us to come on the property to maintain and fix things.
- The evaluation period will begin when it is shown that the reservation system is working effectively.. Which it's not- Two weeks ago we had issues.
- The evaluation process should be 3-5 years in length. The final property decisions will be based primarily on usage data
Dan Bragg : We have the people in line now. We’ll try to get to questions for everyone in line. No one else new in line. If you are making a statement and going on, I'm going to cut you off so we can get to everyone here. Please ask a question that we can answer, and we'll be glad to *******.
Beth Herman? Central region: My question is going back to the original survey. When I filled it out, I did not feel the questions on there were adequate for me to answer why I do or do not camp. My main criteria is not flush toilets, it is availability and affordability. As wonderful as these buildings are, you are now going to price me out of being in a camp. We have [ applause] criteria of our own that was not*****
Brent Gardner : Im not sure that is a question or statement. One of the things we have to look at - that we did look at - is affordability. Affordability goes to the bottom line of usage . If we keep running camps the way we’ve been running them we can'tever stay affordable for very long! It's HUGE that we organize our facilities in a manner so they become affordable for everyone. This isn’t anything other than doing what’s right for girls on a long time basis.
Beth Herman?: If girls can sell thousands of boxes of cookies, why can’t girls fundraise to keep camps open?
[Applause]
Unknown Girl, North Region: I would just like to say that you showed us these camps - using more building. They look just like houses to me. They don’t even feel like cabins. And then you’re just changing it all. You’re just p putting in more stuff we don’t need. That’s not camping. We need camping. Not more stuff we need in our houses.
[applause]
Roberta Riordan, North Region, troop leader, council delegate, new national delegate: As I said in my little speech, we've just been through an ACA accreditation. I have to eat my words because I didn’t believe the advanced rumor. a I wanted to know - how you can possibly justify letting Camp Sugarbush go when it just went through ACA accreditation over the summer? When it's on your list as “ important” and it's the only one in the east ?
[ outbursts]
Brent Gardner: That camp just doesnt have the usage that the other camps have. What I want you to do is look at the Vision 2012 report on the web site and it pretty much outlines what the issues are with each of the camp in numerical order.
Roberta Riordan Do you know the value of ACA accreditation? Can you really justify losing camps of that status ?
Dan Bragg : question in back
Julie__________ North. Troop leader: My question is - until things change - going forward- you want to shut down 5 camps in December, then you want to increase two of the camps ... How long are we looking at without any camps for us to camp at ?
Brent Gardner : With capacity/usage right right now, with the camps that are left, if we plowed all of our resources into the two camps, we have enough capacity to accommodate all the camping that needs to take place right now.
[ outbursts]
Julie_________: ******down to 400. Next spring, let’s go next spring, not many of us camp in the winter. You can count on that. Although I do and a lot of people do....
[ board member attempts to interrupt]
You’re telling me that I won’t get shut out from either of the two camps that are operating at capacity?
? Board Member Part of the planning process that will occur from this point forward will be evaluating different opportunities for funding for advanced development. There may be limited capacity during that processes where we are selling real estate. We will continue to evaluate this and share with membership. There’s a possibility of us to get bridge loans, things like that, in advance of the sale. We are not limited to *********remaining camps.
[Shouted comment: if you can get bridge loans to make things pretty, why can't you***?]
Dan Bragg : OK, next question please. Right here...
Barbara Starr, North Region Membership Delegate: my delegate friend here had a different proposal that you guys totally ignored. We are asking that you wait and reconsider. And if not, as a membership delegate, I say that you never asked our opinions on anything. I think when we did have these meeting we did tell you we don’t want any camps sold. So, therefore I ask that all Board members resign . . .
[ loud, prolonged applause]
Dan Bragg: No comments!
Unknown Member: What is your definition of camping? Here’s mine and it doesn’t have flushable toilets and electricity. You can leave cell phones home for a little while.
?Board member: My understanding from the planning, take camping from the very most primitive to some of the much ******* [garbled and talk over ]
Unknown Member: Your definition of camping. Each of you everyone up there. What is your definition of it? Those pictures up there are definitely not what I would call camping.
? Board member as I said, we are going to have more options........
[OUTBURSTS: ”Answer the question” / ”Answer the question”]
Pamme O’Bryan.Central Region. Council trainer, district coordinator, site monitor, Vison 2012 committee: From my stand point, sometimes our job there was very vague. So, you go over how you researched it, from my point of view being on that committee. I feel we were window dressing. We came to this meeting expecting wonderful things, where it was all going to be OK. The plan that they had was modern. So let’s ask everybody here: Is this your idea of Girl Scout camp?
[ resounding “NO” !!!!]
Pamme O’Bryan Is this what the membership wants? What the girls want?
Dan Bragg: questions directed up here.
Pamme O'Bryan: I understand that. But this is not our idea of camp. If you’re going to put in this kind of thing at camp, what happens to the woods? What happens to the actual property at those camps? How much natural woods? When you can take your girls and you can ***** compared the gorgeous stuff, you go there and that’s better that your house.
? Board Member: **** programs***** expanded
Dan Bragg next question
Ellen Gibson, Girl, Troop 1423 North Region with Vanessa Martin. My question is - you’re saying kids want all these new things in the camp - pools, flushable toilets everything. But I want to know: needs in one hand - wants in the other. C'mon, people, really?
Kelsey Klima, Girl, North Region, National Delegate: First of all I want to say, the adults in this room. Youre setting a horrible example. Second of all, I want to know when this is opened? I for one, am so excited.
? Board Member: We will keep the membership informed as to how the timeline is coming.
Ellen Gibson : You didnt let me say what I wanted to say. You have all this stuff out in the lunch room. You can have this for free - look at that food over there. Why cant you put that to the camps? Where did that go? Wasted in the trash
Dan Bragg: next question
Arshawna Warren, Girl, Central Region, Troop 1984: My question is - How can you close these camps down when you haven’t been there to actually have fun? To me shutting down camps is like shutting down Girl Scouts. I have been a Girl Scout for ten years. I have been to Hilaka and Lenjar more time than I can count. I am very upset right now! This is like a hotel! I dont need a hotel ! I want to go camping - CAMPING - no electricity. I dont need a cell phone . No bathroom? I can use outside . We can bring toilet paper. We don’t need all this. Can we have our camps back, please?
Unknown Member, West Region: I guess my biggest concern is based on the usage of the camps. We use Camp Pleasant Valley in the western area, the only camp in the area. Our next choice is Camp Timberlane which is basically 90 minutes to get there. I dont call that accessible for these girls. To use our own camp, the cost of the camp for overnight use has gone from $30 to over $100 in the last two years. And we call this affordable. I guess my challenge to this board is how do you expect us to try to get new girls to join Girl Scouts? To grow the membership and say ‘yes we can do this for you, but it is going to be very limited because its not really easy for us to take you 90 miles’. Have you ever taken 13 or 14 girls 90 miles? In your decision making process have you really considered the accessibility for these girls? The effect on recruitment?
? Board Member: The cost of camping is going up because of operating the number of camps, and what we will have ******* many people are saying they want to camp primitively. Tthe primitive camping at these camps will be expanded along with these other ....
Unknown Member, West Region [ interrupting ]: It’s 90 minutes away.
? Board Member: you know there are other camps that are closer
Unknown Member, West Region: You are placing Camp Timberlane as the closest camp for us to use, and that’s a 90 minutes drive for us.
? Board Member: To help**********the Boy Scouts went through a similar process******
[ overtalking. Shouts “ You are not answering the question!” ]
Dan Bragg : next question please
Edie Dale : Apparently I won’t get an answer, but Ill try anyway. I'm a Twinsburg volunteer. You have this vision - and some of the vision are what I could see for a camp. The yurts, things that could work. The Vision2012 committee was never asked for their vision. We were asked to do footwork for you , which we did. But not once was the vision sent out to everybody. How is this vision going to happen with the limited space you have left at these camps? You can’t buy property right now. There is so much that has been taken and developed. Field, farm, its gone for housing. How do we have the acreage for your vision, which I would like to point out is not our vision entirely?
Brent Gardner : Thank you for your comment. I want to answer it this way: we do look at the whole picture. We have enough capacity. We will acquire some other acreage around there. The reality of the situation is we have worked really diligently to try to get this all to fit in a smaller footprint so it is more affordable. So it can be a Leadership Center for all the girls that will encompass camping , STEM, and science technology. Those are the things 30,000 people that we represent want, not just what 1,500 people want.
Edie Dale: You. Are . Taking the bed capacity down from ***** 350; *****.76% . That’s just the girls, not including the adults, can now only camp in the winter months from Oct. to April. Thats not our vision.
Dan Bragg next question
: it is suggested that girls can resort to using public camps if you are relinquishing camps in local area. I personally do not feel comfortable taking my girls into public campgrounds. I don’t feel it’s safe for them. I’m going to be competing with other families coming and going. I’m going to be competing with men and women who are not related to Girl Scouting. They not background checked. They are not part of the GS registered organization. We are very, very careful to make sure everybody is registered and background checked to go camping with us. For me to be comfortable bringing my girls into that situation or being responsible for them, for that matter. How are you going to manage that?
Dan Bragg That will be planned out by staff. Next Question, please.
Unknown Member, Organizer: Dont you have an answer?
Dan Bragg: No we don’t. Weren’t you the last in line?
Christina Timms , Troop 1306 from Kent: I have 20- 25 girls Daisies through Seniors . This thing looks like the Brewery to me. I have cheerleaders. We camp there. This is ridiculous. We have flushable toilets at Hilaka that's where out troop goes to camp. My girls are ******* Girl Scout book that was out last year . OK and they looked **** Journey. My Cadettes go where is knot tying and stuff. They say this is ridiculous. They went to Boy Scouts . You say we are looking for help ----- ask the Boy Scouts to do their Eagle Projects at the camps. Speaking as a Walmart employee, we volunteer. My daughter does over in the community. Do you have an answer why you have not come and asked us? Do you have a reason why ? Call us - I'll give you the number.
Dan Bragg That was a statement rather than a question. Next question, last question
Lynn Richardson, North Region, Vision 2012 Committee Member: I helped put up the flags outside that represent 21 properties that had belonged to Girl Scouts in northeastern Ohio that have been lost over the years. More significantly, last spring I presented to you the results of the membership property survey. I have different numbers than the ones you presented.
My question is not the loss of the camps. It's the loss of democracy, because you've got all these people here saying they don't want this. It's the loss of honor when you twist the numbers around and change them. How are you going to maintain membership when youve not only lost camps but youve lost honor?
[Applause]
Dan Bragg ; Thank you for coming . It is a business meeting and it has to be run this way
Everyone rise for the retiring of the colors.
